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Mags
Starting Member
United Kingdom
1 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Nov 2004 : 15:24:54
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Hi
Where can I buy large sheets of thick black plastic to cover my plot for the winter?
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Nick Price
Starting Member
United Kingdom
6 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2004 : 09:09:59
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Dont do it!
You dont help the natural balance of the soil as it can kill critical enzymes. Would you wear a plastic bag all winter imagine the state of your skin after that?
For short periods of time to kill weeds you may get away with it.
I would use some old carpet made of natural material which if you chat up a local carpet fitter or retail outlet you can get hold of either way this will not suffocate the soil in such a bad way.
There is no quick fix to clearing your allotment, in my book.
Weed it well then as an old boy once said to me "Best time to hoe is before you can see the weeds". |
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John Watson
Starting Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2004 : 18:23:41
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| Would Nick Price please cite the source of his interesting statement that says that black plastic sheet will kill critical soil enzymes? It is an important claim that I have not previously seen quoted, and it will be of interest to many allotmenteers and gardeners. I have been using such sheet and bags for many years for composting and ground cover. Note that it is readily obtained from the organic gardening experts HDRA via www.organiccatalogue.com (0845 130 1304) and page 99 of their 2005 printed catalogue, and there is at least one company (possibly two) advertising it on this allotments-uk website. Permeable varieties are also available. It is much more manageable then wet heavy carpets. Regards, John Watson. |
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Jethro
Starting Member
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2004 : 19:07:34
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Totally agree with John  i've been using them for years on my onion trench and as yet have had no problems ( touch wood ), and when i used old carpet the rats made tunnels and nests under them  so i prefer black plastic.
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Nick Price
Starting Member
United Kingdom
6 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2004 : 22:45:33
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It is my own personal opinion!
Mags suggested buying "Thick Black Plastic" to cover the plot.
This would cut off the supply of both air and moisture to the soil and for a long period of time must surley break down any natural balance within the soil structure.
If my logic is floored I appologise ....I just would not do it!
However I am interested to note that John says there is a permeable plastic sheet available which sounds a better idea.
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John C
Member
United Kingdom
328 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2004 : 12:58:48
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A few years ago I took on a neighbours veg garden that had overgrown, and they were not capable of looking after it. The weeds and brambles covered the 30ft x 15ft patch. We covered the whole area with a black sheet from the farm suppliers. This was weighted down and left for about 15 - 18 months. We put pot plants and various things on top so the old lady would have something better that black to look at. The ground dried out and prevented the slugs and snails from living under there. When we finally removed the sheets everything had died off, and the ground was easy to turn over. After preparing the ground and adding 'zoo-poo' we had some good crops of various veg that summer and autumn. Unfortunately the old lady died and her daughter let me stay on until the end of the year before selling the house. The new people were very pleased that they had a weed free veg patch.. which they have continued to cultivate.
John C. |
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Robinjw13
Starting Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2004 : 19:55:50
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Hi,
I can give you two suppliers in addition to HDRA/Chase but please understand that I am not strictly qualified to advise - I have no experience! Just doing some research.
I found Permatex 105g from Tildenet – 7 rolls = £245
Capatex 100g CA110 – 7 rolls = £ 252
Black Polythene BLAP5 from Chase/HDRA – 4 rolls = £400
The above is all to cover about 700 square metres of land & the point is that HDRA look expensive. Check the horticulture catalogue at www.tildenet.co.uk & www.capatex.com/agro_web. I too am looking for something to kill weeds - including bind weed - on a large area in 2 to 3 months. The carpet people say they have a waiting list!
Cheers,
Robin |
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John Watson
Starting Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 17:42:13
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Yes, Robinjw13 is quite right about price. I mentioned HDRA mainly to show that organic gardeners do use plastic sheet, but they are pricey. Robin's lower prices are difficult to beat, but look thro' local Yellow Pages under plastics-sheet and use the phone. Builders suppliers might help, and farm suppliers as John C mentioned. Try also www.kayshorticulture.com on 01946 692134 in Cumbria.
As regards bindweed, RHS somewhere suggest that it might take 2 years of plastic cover to eliminate this. If you can't wait that long,my suggestion is to use focussed digging: locate exact source of bindweed shoots and carefully dig out. Ignore all other weeds and cover with sheet for short term control. If that's too big a job (and if it's too late to locate bindweed shoots), then cover for now to gain some control, and dig out in the spring. If that's still too big a job, then break the organic rules just for once: as the first bindweed leaves appear in spring (and you must wait for them to appear), carefully apply SBK to each leaf. This is one of the nastiest substances that I know, but it is very effective. Buy the smallest quantity of SBK from a garden centre, and treat it with great respect. This suggestion will be controversial to some gardeners, but it may prompt further benign suggestions. Even so, getting rid of bindweed in 2-3 months is, I suggest, hopelessly ambitious. Regards, John Watson. |
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Robinjw13
Starting Member
7 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 18:39:25
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You folk (John/Nick/Jethro) seem pretty knowledgeable on this so I wonder if I could ask your opinion, or that of any other reader, on the following:
Suppose, instead of black plastic sheet, I was to turn the turf upside down?  The plan would be to (a) mow the grass& weeds very low, (b) dig the turf to approx 4 inch deep squares and invert. Result would be a soil layer of 4 inches above the grass & weeds, hopefully blocking out the light and acting in a similar manner to the polythene.
In March I would add manure (or could add that immediately following turf inversion?) and dig out any stubborn weeds such as our friend bindweed.
One major benefit would be the excercise. Plus Nick would be happier!
Robin |
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Gavin
Member
United Kingdom
242 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2004 : 22:02:16
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Hi Robin - straight answer? Yes and no! :-(
Depends a lot on your soil. Afaik, if you can bury couch grass (which is probably your turf?) so that the roots are more than 18 inches deep, they cannot reach the surface again, and will die. I hasten to add that I have NEVER attempted to bury turf that deep!!!!!
On my old plot (a lovely easy to work and fertile loam), digging and turning over simply didn't work; unless I removed all the roots with a fork and by hand, the couch grass simply grew back.
On my new plot, a VERY heavy and unworked clay, as long as the spits are really turned upside down - turf and roots to the bottom, digging and turning does seem to work. But the soil is so hard, that even couch grass can't get more than 2-3 inches in; and it looks like my turning it drowns the couch grass rather than anything else :-) :-) :-)
Good luck - Gavin
http://www.keirg.freeserve.co.uk/diary/ |
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Mildew
Starting Member
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2006 : 17:56:51
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Turning does nothing for my plot, I just get grass growing again. There's a breathable sheet you can buy in rolls from B&Q. It costs about a tenner for a ten meter roll and it seems to be doing the trick. Thick black plactic I'm sure you can get in builders yards vaguely cheaply and if you prick holes in them rain and air can get to the soil.
Kind of on topic (Nick mentioned it) did I read somewhere that HDRA are now not recommending the use of carpets on the plot?
Shameless plug for blog: www.20six.co.uk/mildew |
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digmyplot
Member
1348 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2006 : 18:24:12
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Hi Mildew,
I don't want to dampen your spirits, with your name you are damp enough already. It sounds like couch grass and covering it with breathable plastic membrane will do the trick until you uncover it. Then the white roots (have a look and see if they are there under the plastic) will sprout again. If I am right then you need to dig it out, not dig it in. It is a perennial weed: see Rogues Gallery on my website.
Carpet is not a good idea it just gets sodden wet, has chemicals in it and families of all kinds of things move in.
hope this is a help.
www.digmyplot.co.uk |
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mc55
Member
140 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2006 : 20:54:29
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Hi, I've got bindweed pretty badly and am currently devoting the winter months to digging it out. Its taking some time, but the soil is easy to dig at this time of year and although its tough on my knees and back, I'm hoping that come spring I'll be able to keep it in check enough to grow stuff on a couple of beds. I'm trying to be thorough and clear just a couple of beds, rather than rush and try and clear everything as I know this will not work. I'm also going to grow pumpkins and squashes over the bottom half of the lottie - will hopefully smother some of the weeds - the plants are huge when they get going.
Unfortunately I'm also digging out the previous owners carpet which has obviously been there for a couple of years - the bindweed is growing through the carpet which has one-two inches of soil on top. Not fun.
Digging is the best way in my opinion .
http://duckdinnerdash.blogspot.com/ |
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49er
Member
236 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2006 : 18:37:55
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| Hello. I hope it's not too late to add my bit to this; it might help some folk out. As part of a newly formed association I felt brave enough to send a begging letter to a company that makes geofabrics ( a clue in the name, search-engine fans ! ). Explaining our plight of constant battles with weeds on untenanted plots I asked if they had a few off cuts of their black, thick, permeable fabric ( that's like pan-scourer material ). At best I thought enough to cover 1 plot would be great but they let us have about 1200 sq metres, about 5 plots worth! And it has proved invaluable. It's robust, reusable, kills off the weeds but doesn't kill the soil, negates the need for chemicals and it was free. I know it's black and isn't the best thing to look at but it's better than a sea of weeds. Go on check out the yellow pages for a manufacturer near you. |
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bobthepipe
Member
United Kingdom
821 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2006 : 20:16:53
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plastic & carpet are ok, but they harbour slugs snails, mice & maybe
worse pests. If carpet & plastic Kill weeds then they kill the soil.,
dig or rotovate the weeds in it enriches the ground,
If it comes out of the soil put it back, some gardeners treat it as nuclear science, some of us know better
good luck, bob |
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greengiant
Member
United Kingdom
181 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2006 : 10:16:30
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Hi - I am in a construction related occupation so I used black visqueen, (mostly used as damp proof course material under our projects). It costs, to the public, about 45 -50 quid for a 25mx4m roll therefore covering 100sqm. Ask for 12 Hundred gauge as this is nice and thick.
You can get these rolls readily from places like Travis Perkins, Wickes etc or other builders merchants.
It's great - the initial cost seems high - but I divided the plot into sections and only cover a couple of small areas (4 X 4 M) at a time, after turning, to keep the nasties down and move them on a regular basis around the plot. I do not use them after late Spring so I carefully fold these up to use later on when needed at the end of the season.
I found that a roll lasts ages - and you could always buy one between you. Another advantage is the fact that these rolls are only about five foot high and tightly rolled so space to store isn't a major issue. You just roll out enough length , cut it and then fold out the 4 metres in the width.
Hope that helps someone.
Jolly G |
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